Episode 3: Disability Belongs in Every Sector

Cami Marble 

Welcome to the Disability Belongs Podcast. [violin music]

 

Just a quick disclaimer as we get started that the opinions expressed in the Disability Belongs Podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of CFLIC, its member organizations, or YO! Disabled and Proud. And, with that out of the way, let's get on to the episode.

Our guest today has worked at Disability Rights California for 14 years and is a Senior Advocate. She specifically works in the Pathways to Work Practice Group. She is a self proclaimed chicken watcher and plant hoarder, and I'm so excited to be here today with Rebecca Hoyt. Welcome, Rebecca!

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Hi, Cami! Thank you so much for having me.

 

Cami Marble 

Yeah, I'm so glad you're here. Can you tell us a little bit about what Disability Rights California is and what your role at DRC is?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Absolutely. Disability Rights California is part of California's protection and advocacy system. So, each state has an organization like ours to preserve and advance the rights of people with disabilities. And these organizations were really born out of anti-institutional work. In 1975, there was an expose on a state developmental center called Willowbrook, where the people who lived there were living in really deplorable conditions. And so out of the advocacy work that was done to close that facility, each state developed a protection and advocacy system. So Disability Rights California is the system for Californians with disabilities, and we work to defend, advance and strengthen the rights and opportunities of people with disabilities in all stages of life and we have a variety of different practice areas and units to meet people wherever they are, with whatever agencies they're encountering on their journey. I work in the Pathways to Work Practice Group, which is part of our legal advocacy unit, and our staff are devoted to removing barriers to employment for people with disabilities. And we do this through providing empowering self advocacy services, direct representation, and a lot of systemic work.

 

Cami Marble 

Thanks for that! What led you to work at DRC?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Well, aside from my own personal connection with disability advocacy, I was going to school and working at a program in Los Angeles that provided theatre arts programs to young people in juvenile camps and facilities. And they also received some services, some funding to provide services to folks in the community who had been charged with a gang related offense. And in doing that work, was really taken aback by the prevalence of of disability that was either underserved or under diagnosed with the folks that I was working with. And I was in school, I was studying sociology. And my academic advisor at the time, the more I talked to him about what I wanted to accomplish, and the work that I wanted to do really encouraged me to pursue a job in the legal field.

So when I graduated from school, I went to work at public counsel's Law Center in Los Angeles and worked as an education advocate, which felt like a very natural transition for me. I was doing a lot of special education and school discipline work. And it felt like an opportunity to really meet some of the folks that I was meeting in  locked facilities much earlier in their journey. And to really kind of examine the the link between the juvenile justice systems and our school systems, which can be really harmful to students with disabilities, especially low income students and students of color. So I felt like that was a natural path that would allow me to to affect the kind of change I wanted. So as I was working there, I was really attracted to the work of DRC because it was an organization that really focused on disability work and had a really rich history in anti institutional and systemic work.

Now, as an employment advocate, I'm particularly passionate about employment because it's really kind of this nexus of where different systems have to work together and work well in order to serve people. So when we come to work, we need access to education, to healthcare, childcare, supportive services, assistive technology, transportation, freedom from discrimination, and so on. So this feels like a space where I can be most impactful. And so I'm really excited to be doing this type of work.

 

Cami Marble 

That's so interesting how you talk about how really everything has to connect and go right in order for someone to be in a successful place of employment.

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Yeah, I think we can do a lot of reflection on how well we are meeting the needs of people with disabilities when we look at employment rates. And unfortunately, when you look at current rates and historic rates throughout the state and the nation, we have a lot of work to do.

 

Cami Marble 

You've talked a little bit about how you've kind of helped other people in their journeys and employment. How has your own disability impacted your experiences in the workforce or in education before that?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

There's a lot to say here. So I am a person with dyslexia. So there are many, you know, medical definitions of dyslexia. I would describe it as you know, I have a picture brain. So as I take in written information, it's following a different path, through my, you know, neuro journey, in order to be absorbed. And then also, you know, following a different path, in order for me to translate from what I'm seeing in my head, which are usually images to words, whether they're spoken or written. In terms of my education experience, it is really apparent to me that academia and K-12 systems were really not built with people like me in mind. I think our school systems tend to measure and reward a very specific type of intelligence and compliance. So when I look back at my K-12, education, there was a lot of, you know, really real struggles. And in some ways, it was like I was a European outlet, and there's like an American plug. The outlet works fine, but you need a converter in order to really have that be a meaningful connection.

 

Cami Marble 

That's a really interesting way of describing that. I really liked that.

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Thank you. I think this is one of the gifts of dyslexia is I speak a lot in metaphors, because that's kind of my experience of the world and how I can best express myself is making something visual. But there, you know, if you don't fit into those three holes, it can be a really challenging experience.

So I had a lot of progress reports going through school that would say things like "Rebecca is very bright, but she's not really reaching her full potential." I think I was frequently labeled as, you know, being lazy, or careless, or not applying myself, which was hurtful and ironic because I was probably spending much more time and a lot of painstaking effort to complete assignments than some of my peers. So, school did teach me really an incredible work ethic. In part that was because I wanted to do well. But the other part was I needed to protect myself from some of the diminishing feedback I would receive from teachers.

You know, I finished school, there was a really impactful experience I had in one of my transition IEP meetings, where I was told to kind of manage my expectations of what life after high school might look like. And one of my teachers suggested that I look at occupations where I could use my hands, meaning that I was built for manual labor. That doesn't really fit my personality type or my interests. I do love building things, but in a very different way. And I think it was really at that moment that I decided within myself, like, I am going to college and I am going to graduate. And so I don't think it was intended to motivate me, but it really did.

 

Cami Marble 

If you could go back to that moment, in that meeting, and say something else to yourself, would you? Is there something like different that you would have told yourself?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

I don't think so. I think that, you know, I am really strong willed, and I think that's part of what makes me really good at the work that I do. And so sometimes when I feel doubted or underestimated it can really be a place of an empowering experience if I let it. To say, like, I don't need to let someone else decide what I'm capable of, like I can choose to listen to other people's voices, or I can trust the voice that's in my own head.

 

Cami Marble 

That's powerful. That's interesting how, even though that comment was not like, it definitely was not an appropriate comment to make in that moment. It's still like, it's shaped so much of your life, and it seems like it's shaped who you are even now.

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Absolutely, and I think that I would encourage others to use those experiences, which are meant to diminish us, as ways to, you know, find a place to allow them instead to empower us, to say "that doesn't have to be my story, I can write my own story."

 

Cami Marble 

I love that. I think you were starting to talk about college when I interrupted you with another question. Do you want to continue on from there? Is there anything else?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, another really impactful experience I had in my education journey was when I first went to college. I went to private school, and I needed accommodations. And college is a, I think, a really rough transition for a lot of special education students to go from the special education process to now, you know, having your, your rights and protections under the ADA. And so I started advocating for myself, for the accommodations I needed for school. And the school was under the impression that, because they were a private university, they weren't obligated to provide any accommodations, and really made me feel like what I was asking for was special treatment, you know, quote, unquote, rather than, you know, an equity ask.

 

So, I was able to, you know, start kind of researching. Like, I didn't know a lot about [Section] 504, and the reasonable accommodations. And so that was the first time I, in trying to look at what my legal rights were, I learned about people like Judy Human, and I learned about the Capital Crawl, and I felt this greater connection to all of these people who had come before me and like paved this way for me to be able to get an education. And so that was really impactful in shaping [my future], I think that really drove me to disability advocacy.

And even though I did get granted the accommodations from that particular college, I ended up transferring, because, even though I thought I had what I needed to be successful there, I didn't feel like I should have had to work so hard to be successful. And I think that it was not a place that was ready to embrace a student like me, and rather than try to redesign that system, I went to the school where I felt a greater sense of belonging and acceptance.

 

Cami Marble 

You know, that's definitely something I have experienced, unfortunately, in my own schools. Having to push for changes that, I shouldn't have to be the one that has to work for it, like I should have access to my education, and I deserve access to my education, and I'm guaranteed access to my education. But that doesn't always happen. But, if there was something that you could change about, like, let me let me figure out how to phrase this.

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

[Laughs]

 

Cami Marble 

Like, what would have been helpful if they did something differently? Not that that should ever have to be your job to make them do things, right. But, if they had accommodated you in a certain way, or taught you about Disability Culture in a certain way, or something like that, is there something that would have been helpful for you?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

I don't know if it's as surface as that, I think this is actually a great example of why we need more people with disabilities working in every sector. If we had more administrators and curriculum designers with disabilities, I think we would have a more inclusive education system. And I think we, you know, on a larger level, need to sort of look at accommodations at some point as fixes to systems that were not designed for people with disabilities and move past that and start looking at how do we make all systems move in the direction of universal and inclusive design so that they're built foundation up in a way that is inclusive and welcoming?

 

Cami Marble 

Yeah, because there's only so many band aids that we can put on a system that wasn't built for Disabled people originally.

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Absolutely, and to give just another example, you know, when I finished college, I was like, "Alright, I'm gonna go to law school." And I started looking into studying for the LSAT, which is the entrance exam for law schools. And at that time, your test was graded and scored differently if you used accommodations during the the exam. And so I spent a few years really trying to study so that I could get a competitive score without the accommodations that I needed, because I felt like the only alternative was to basically flag and label myself as a student with a disability before I had even entered law school. So it felt like two very bad options. And so that really didn't seem like a path that was right for me at that time.

 

Cami Marble 

Oh, that makes sense.

 

What advice do you have for disabled people fighting for their own accommodations?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

So my advice is not to accept the first "no", as the final "no." A lot of people give up when they're first denied accommodations, whether it's by an employer, or a school, or a public setting. And I think, unfortunately, these systems are built for that, you know, but there's generally an opportunity to appeal. And, when we advocate for ourselves in those processes, we're not only benefiting and obtaining your own accommodations, but we're really widening the path for the next person. The more that we can create those spaces for people to connect, the less these systems can consolidate people and their legal issues. So there's like a broader community power that we need to tap into.

 

Cami Marble 

That's great, thank you. So I know dyslexia, when it's talked about, is often talked about [as] something that like children have, as if it disappears at some point in your life, which we know is not true. How has dyslexia impacted your life, particularly in adulthood, as you got out of the education system and started to come into work, and learn[ed] how your brain works and how you do things in a way that works for you?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

I think the workplace has been different for me than [my experience] in education, because my success is measured more by what I'm accomplishing rather than the process by which I'm accomplishing it. So there are a lot of things that I struggle with, but I find the more open I am about what I'm experiencing, the, the greater the support I receive. And so I've found it easier to access accommodations and assistive technology at work. But in my job, I do communicate and think and process information differently than other people. And I think that that is an asset to my employer. You know, I think a lot of employers are looking to add someone to their team who thinks differently, who can bring new ideas, who has, you know, some innovation and vision, and I think people with disabilities are a really untapped labor market. So you know, the things that I can bring to the table are not something that necessarily someone can be trained to do, so I think it makes sense to really look at neurodiversity more as an asset in the employment setting.

 

But in terms of, you know, dyslexia and adulthood, I think that stigma is very real, including in the communities of adults with dyslexia. A lot of folks, even in my own circle of support, are hesitant to use the word disability because it's so stigmatized to say "I have a learning disability" as an adult. And in many ways I understand that, because I learn new things every day. I learned new things all the time, but I am learning differently.

I would love to see us kind of normalize the way we talk about learning disabilities and dyslexia with adults. I have really real adult problems. It's hard for me to send an email. I don't have the same accommodations and supports I have at work to text message, help my kid with homework, you know. I have a hard time in in grocery stores, in the office settings because of the fluorescent lighting, and, you know, the biggest part is, after a long day of trying to translate my thoughts into neurotypical conversations and writing, I'm exhausted. So, you know, I would really love to see us embrace disability. It's not a bad word. And I think that my experience is like really owning that dyslexia is a part of my identity, and I am a person with a disability [that] creates this beautiful connection to a larger community for me, even to folks that don't have the same disabilities. And so I think there's a lot of work that that we internally can do to talk more openly and more honestly about dyslexia and learning disabilities in adulthood.

 

Cami Marble 

Thanks! Thant's so interesting to hear. Do you identify with the term neurodivergent? At all? Or like neuro diverse? I think you mentioned it a little bit.

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

I absolutely do. I have very similar needs sometimes, or experiences, as a lot of my, you know, peers with different neuro diversities. You know, I really appreciate plain language, I have times where like, I can't process like, externally what I'm thinking internally, and there's like, a little bit of a block there, I talk with my hands, like, I need mental breaks, I experience a lot of, you know, or I should say, I relate a lot to also what people refer to as masking. So, you know, trying to pass as, in some spaces, and to sort of normalize myself is, is very taxing. And so at the end of that, like, I'm kind of mentally spent.

 

Cami Marble 

How do you care for yourself as a neurodivergent person in a world that was systemically set up for neurotypical people? And that can be like, I think, as a society, we talk about self care, and people are like bubble baths, and lotion! And I'm like, that's not quite what I mean. I mean, if that is your preferred form of self care, that is wonderful, but I think it just extends so much beyond that. So, what has been your experience with self care, or caring for yourself, giving yourself rest as a Disabled person or a neurodivergent person?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

I think that there are times when I just need alone time. Like, I can't communicate anymore, or I can't go through the taxing process of trying to communicate like the rest of the world. So I think taking those mental social breaks is really helpful. And then I am learning as I grow up, that, you know, the more that I can share with people what is happening, you know, in the moment is really, to my benefit. So, if I can tell you, like, I'm struggling to find the word or like, you know, I have this image in my head and it looks like this, you know, but I'm having a hard time articulating that. I think people tend to understand and even if I'm not expressing, like, "Oh, this is a part of my disability," but just I'm telling you, like, "I'm trying to communicate something, but I'm having a hard time." I think that works well.

 

I think this is really hard, particularly these last few years of the pandemic as I've been working from home, and it seems like there is so many spaces where people with disabilities are fighting and really need a megaphone. One sort of practical practice is really working to empower and lift up the people around me so that we are sharing the work and the emotional labor that goes into the advocacy, there's still some places where I really struggle to like separate whatever by, you know, the intersections of like, the personal issues and the way that the systemic issues are impacting my life. So I think there's, you know, times when I'm really not doing a good job of honoring other parts of myself and separating who I am from what I do, which is sort of a very built in  capitalistic, ableist perspective that I'm working to separate from.

So, the pandemic has really brought to me the need to kind of start this self care journey. You know, many of us started this at the beginning of March. Like, we were going to approach a sprint, this turned out to be a marathon. And so I'm trying to give myself a little bit of space. So small things like stepping away from the work and going outside and sitting with my chickens in what I'm calling my self care chair. That's been really helpful  to me and I'm looking forward to seeing you know, what other self care things that evolve from that.

 

Cami Marble

Okay, I gotta know, is the self care chair like is it like a lawn chair, like a hammock, what kind of chair is it?

 

Rebecca Hoyt

It's a patio chair with a very comfy cushion. But, most importantly, it is far away enough from my home office where I can't hear the phone ring, I can't hear that little bing when an email comes in, [stuff] that, if I'm anywhere else, will kind of call me back to my desk.

 

Cami Marble 

We've got to watch out, self care chair is gonna be trending after this episode is published.

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

That would be amazing.

 

Cami Marble 

So you've talked a little bit about like, Disability Community and learning about disability culture and history that came before you. How have you fostered a sense of disability pride or community in your own life, particularly when you're in a role that you're not only advocating for yourself as a Disabled person, but you're also advocating for other Disabled people around you?

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Yeah, so I want to share a little bit about when I was diagnosed with dyslexia. So I was in second grade, and actually my mother was tested at the same time. And so she was diagnosed at the same time that I was, in her adulthood. And I can remember, you know, being in this office with her, and, you know, having this exam that I really didn't understand at the time explained, and my mom burst into tears. And so, for her whole life up to that point, she didn't have a place to say, "this is what is happening in my brain," or, you know, "this is why I'm struggling with this," or "this is why my experience of this is different." And so she spent a lot of years feeling like she didn't belong, or that she was struggling in a way that her peers were not. And so I think there was like, this liberation that happened. And so you know, I think she wanted to protect me a little bit from having some of the same experiences. So, disability was like something we talked very openly about at home. It was kind of private, at school and in other spaces.

 

So when I had my own child, who was also, you know, someone with a disability, he has a different disability than I do. So, it's great conversations about, like, "what's going on in your brain? " Or like, "what is what's happening right now, for you?" You know, I really wanted him to have it a different experience, and to have that sense of pride and community that I didn't have as much access to growing up. And so, I've really felt like that is the biggest influence on my identity is the person with disabilities, that if I want him to grow up with pride in his identity, the most effective way I can foster that is to model it within myself.

 

And so we have really open conversations about disability. He's very open with his classmates. We had a great experience where another classmate disclosed to him that he also had a disability and my son was like, "it's nothing to be embarrassed about, like everybody's brain and body is different." So, I really see a lot of what I had craved within myself in him. And so it becomes kind of this reciprocal relationship of, you know, us passing that pride back and forth. And I think I'm also very fortunate to be immersed in an environment with people with disabilities all around me, whether they're colleagues, or co workers, or community partners. And so I have all these amazing examples of people who are unapologetically themselves in every space at every time. And so, I'm striving to be that in order to live up to the example they've set for me,

 

Cami Marble 

So interesting, I've talked with a few different Disabled people who have have Disabled parents as well, either with the same condition or different, and it's just really interesting to hear how disability pride is passed or is not passed from generation to generation. And so I really enjoyed hearing you talk about that in your own family and in your own life.

 

Rebecca Hoyt 

Yeah, and I'm really, like, awestruck by, you know, the younger generation of advocates and activists. I think there's just a different sense of being and sense of self than I had access to, so I'm so excited and optimistic about like, the movers, shakers, and change makers, you know, that are on their way.

 

Cami Marble

That leads us into our next question which is kind of a different direction. So you have worked on the Build Back Better coalition. Could you talk a bit about the Build Back Better coalition and what the goal of that coalition is?

 

Rebecca Hoyt

So our coalition is growing, we were born out of an employment summit that we hosted back in May of 2021. We have a great compilation of community partners who are working with us in the coalition, and my vision is that we create a statewide, cross-disability movement around employment, that we really celebrate the diversity of California’s disability community, and that we seize this moment in the pandemic where we are not rebuilding the same harmful systems and unequal structures that existed before the pandemic, but really reimagining what is possible.

And so we’re working around six goals. And our goals include to increase labor market participation for people with disabilities, to close the gap in service disparities for Black, Indigenous, and communities of color, to ensure that people with disabilities can participate in program design, policy decisions, and in California’s recovery efforts. We also want to increase access to a living wage for all people with a disability, increase opportunities for work based learning from an early age, and lastly, to increase access to employment supports for people who need them.

 

Cami Marble

Is there some way that our listeners can get involved with the Build Back Better coalition, or maybe a website or social media?

 

Rebecca Hoyt

Absolutely, we have a landing page on our Disability Rights California website: www.disabilityrightsca.org. And when you visit our page, there is a link where you can add your email address and join the coalition, and then you’ll receive updates about our events and opportunities in public policy.

 

Cami Marble

Awesome, thank you so much! Can you talk about why diversity and inclusion, specifically of Disabled people, is important in the workplace?

 

Rebecca Hoyt

So I think, whether employers recognize it or not, you already have staff and potentially leadership and clients who are people with disabilities. So this is not a new idea, this is good business. So I think inclusion of people with disabilities is really important because, according to the CDC, about 25% of Americans are people with disabilities. So, if you can hone in on the assets that your employees bring to the table and translate that into every aspect of your company or your organization, then what you’re producing is more accessible services.

You know, one thing that comes up pretty frequently in our community conversations for us is transportation. So if we had more people with disabilities working in transportation fields, I believe that we’d have more accessible transportation systems. I think we’re also at a point in time where employers are really looking to expand their diversity efforts, and so I think we can’t do that without intersectional employees and people with disabilities.

 

Cami Marble

Thanks for sharing that. The name of the podcast is “Disability Belongs.” What does disability belongs mean to you?

Rebecca Hoyt

I think it’s a beautiful name, you know, people with disabilities are already your family members, neighbors, students, teachers, coworkers, and people that you see every day. So I think disability belongs is a statement that affirms that people with disabilities hold space, and should be embraced, and they’re beautiful, and are a completely whole form in which we all already exist.

 

Cami Marble

Thank you so much Rebecca, it has been so wonderful talking to you today!

And for our podcast listeners, if you want to follow the podcast, follow @disability_belongs_podcast on Instagram. That will be in our show notes in the description for this episode, and we will also link to the Build Back Better page that Rebecca talked about. Rebecca, are there any other words you’d like to share or any form of social media that you would like me to shout out?

 

Rebecca Hoyt

I’d like to invite folks to attend our upcoming event, our May “Employment for All” event which is centered around increasing hiring of people with disabilities in state and federal employment. And in October we’re planning to link the whole state in a National Disability Employment Awareness month event.

 

Cami Marble

Great, thank you so much, Rebecca! I hope you have a great day!

 

Rebecca Hoyt

Thank you!

 

Cami Marble

Thank you so much for choosing to listen to the Disability Belongs Podcast! This podcast would not be possible without the support of the California Foundation for Independent Living Centers, and the YO! Disabled and Proud program. Thank you to my entire team at YO! We can't wait for our next episode and we hope you'll join us then. [violin music]

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Edited by Zofia Trexler